PLANNING BOARD
TOWN OF ROCHESTER
ULSTER COUNTY
ACCORD, NEW YORK
(845) 626-2434
MINUTES OF January, 9th 2017 Meeting of the Town of Rochester PLANNING BOARD, held at the Town of Rochester Community Center, Accord, NY.
Chairman Baden asked everyone to stand for the pledge to the Flag.
The Secretary did roll call attendance.
PRESENT: ABSENT:
Michael Baden, Chairman Shane Ricks
Lawrence DeWitt
Maren Lindstrom
John Dawson
Patrick Williams
Also present:
Rick Jones, Alternate member. Shaye Davis, Secretary.
Chairman Baden announced Mr. Jones, the alternate, will be seated on the Board for this meeting in the place of Vice Chairman Paddock who resigned due to work commitment.
ANNOUNCEMENTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
Chairman Baden noted that there was a vacancy for two seats and the alternate available and that the letters of interest for the board would have to be in to the Town Board no later than January, 23rd 2017.
Chairman Baden stated that last month the board had passed the Sotirovitch and Kambouris subdivision and Mr. Medenbach sent a letter that stated the smaller lot is able to support water and septic and the final plans had been signed.
TRAININGS
Chairman Baden noted that there are no new trainings besides the 2017 Training School and Annual Meeting on February, 19th-22nd 2017 in Saratoga Springs.
ACTION ON MINUTES
Chairman Baden stated that the November 2016 minutes are tabled.
Mr. Dawson motioned to approve the December 2016 minutes, Ms. Lindstrom seconded.
Motioned carried. All in favor
Vote:
Baden: Yes Williams: Yes
Lindstrom: Yes Ricks: Absent
Dawson: Yes Jones: Yes
Dewitt: Yes
6 ayes, 0 nays, 1 absent, 0 abstentions
2016-08 SUP Continued Application
Special Use
Humphrey Enterprises, Inc (owner) John Dawson (applicant)
Proposes Multiple Uses of a 9 acre parcel
Route 209 and Old Mine Rd., S/B/L 76.1-1-9.1, I and AP Overlay zoning districts
Mr. Dawson recused himself at 7:07PM
Chairman Baden explained the recusal process for the public.
Chairman Baden stated that the board will open the public hearing during the meeting. The board will not be able to make a decision at the meeting because the application had to be referred to the county planning board for comment and review and it was sent but somehow they never received it.
Chairman Baden stated that there is a 9 acre parcel that has frontage on state route 209 just beyond Gaydos Auto body along with a right of way to Samsonville Road. The Lot is in the Industrial Zoning district of the Town. What was proposed was a single family home which is a special use in the Industrial Zone. Also proposed was a retail establishment for vehicle and equipment and also proposed is commercial parking. There are three uses being proposed for this property. There are existing structures that are going to be reused in the process and a new single family home will be built on the property.
Chairman Baden asked the board if they had any questions or comments.
Ms. Lindstrom stated that the only new structure is the single family house. The mobile home comes in while the new home is being built and then the mobile home goes away.
Mr. Dawson stated that the mobile home might not come on to the property at all.
Ms. Lindstrom asked Mr. Dawson if he needs to do any work on the existing structures.
Mr. Dawson replied stating no.
Chairman Baden noted that there is a mobile home that is proposed for temporary living while the home is being built, if necessary.
Mr. Jones asked if the uses proposed are permitted in the zone, the access to state route 209 is being reviewed by the county.
Chairman Baden replied saying yes and that the application is being sent to DOT since it is on state route 209.
Mr. Jones asked about the issue of mobile home versus building a structure from scratch and how it will evolve.
Mr. Dawson replied stating that it is a financial standpoint and that he is selling his house.
Chairman Baden stated that the mobile home on the plan is clearly labeled that it will be a temporary residence while the home is being build and once the residence is completed the mobile home will be removed.
Mr. Jones stated that although it is a big site with a lot of stuff on it already, what is being proposed is really simple.
Mr. Baden stated that what is being proposed as a new structure is a new house. What’s being proposed as uses is residential use. The property is already used as residential and this new single family home would be the second home on the lot and that the preexisting home pre-dates any of the zoning codes and is essential grandfathered.
Mr. Jones asked Mr. Dawson if the retail establishment for vehicles is a repair shop.
Mr. Dawson stated that he restores classic automobiles and right now he falls under home occupation but since this property is in the industrial zone it makes it easier.
Chairman Baden stated that it is not used in terms of a full time auto body shop or anything like that.
Mr. Dawson noted that it is not a place where you can park and see all these cars, everything he does is online and that he doesn’t sell locally and that it is not open to the public.
Chairman Baden opened the public hearing.
Debra Smith stated that she is down Old Mine Road and that there are two issues she has. One is that she heard rumors that Mr. Dawson wanted to put in a car rally on the property. She also noted that Mr. Dawson said he still has the right of way out to Samsonville road and why was ours taken away and bulldozed over and a gate put up.
Chairman Baden stated that the property itself has a right of way to Samsonville Road
Debra Smith stated that she also has a right of way to Samsonville as well as others in the audience. She stated that the right of way is in all of their deeds.
Mr. Jones asked why they don’t have their right of way
Debra Smith and another person stated that Mr. Dawson put up a gate and put up a huge rock to block them from going through.
Mr. Dawson responded saying that when the subdivision was done it was done with the perception that the road was going to be turned over to the Town and become a Town Road. When Sonny Krom sold the property off he never went through and did that so therefore it never happened and never became a town road. Mr. Dawson’s attorney told him that it is a civil matter and that if they want to have the town take it over then they could but they can’t just drive across someone’s property because the original sub divider proposed that he was going to put in a town road and never did so it doesn’t exist.
Debra Smith stated that they have used that right of way for years.
Chairman Baden noted that the Board will investigate this situation. He also stated that as far as the drawings he had looked at there is a section of Old Mine Road that physically crosses this property.
Mr. DeWitt stated that he would like to see on the map where they are talking about to be clear of the situation.
The neighbors and board members looked at the map and explained the situation.
Mr. Dawson noted that it was never built as a road and that they were just driving across the land.
Mr. Bello read his deed to the board.
Mr. Jones asked Mr. Dawson if the right of way is going through his property now.
Mr. Dawson replied stating yes, the original proposal of the subdivision was to put more homes and put a town road out to Samsonville to make it a continuous road but it was never done.
Mr. Jones stated that the applicant would’ve had to bring it to the town.
Mr. Dawson replied saying yes but he never went through with it so the town never took it over.
Chairman Baden asked Mr. Bello if he could give the board a copy of his deed.
Mr. Jones noted that it was mentioned in another meeting that trucks get into the property by this right of way to Samsonville but how do the trucks get through that way if there is a gate up.
Mr. Dawson stated that the gate is at the end of his property.
Mr. Bello stated that the so-called road that doesn’t exist according the Mr. Dawson was built in the 1970’s. Howard Terwilliger used the pads that were original the chicken coops. He covered the pads with gravel to make the road. Over the years the town actually came through and plowed that road, the gravel disappeared and the road started deteriorating but up until last winter that was plowed every year by someone. We were able to come in and out through that way. We didn’t have to go up school hill on icy days. There were many days during snow and icy weather where he would get to Samsonville and be happy he made it to there and was able to turn off and go down Old Mine Road and not have to go down the hill by Gaydos and up the hill on Academy Street. When the pipe factory burned down in 1981 the emergency vehicles came from that direction.
Chairman Baden stated that emergency vehicles can access any way they can in an emergency situation.
Mr. Bello also stated that since they are in the Accord Fire District that the only way for a fire truck to get through to them is through that gate.
Mr. Dawson noted that his attorney said that if people wanted to enter into a road maintenance agreement and help support the road then we are willing in the future for it to become something as a sort of a town road but he is not willing to support something for a community that is used as a town road and that is what it comes down to. Either people have to enter in to an agreement and maintain it or not.
Mr. Jones asked Mr. Dawson if he’d be willing to do some kind of home owner’s road with himself and the other homeowners.
Mr. Dawson says that it is private property and that it was never taken over.
Mr. Baden said that Mr. Dawson can only speak for the portion over his property, he can’t speak for the others.
Mr. Dawson said that it’s the same problem with Eric Gilles, he was plowing and maintaining it up to his property and Trumbore was trying to do something so vehicles could come in through this way but it was the same problem. It just became a place for people to drive in and throw their couches, and chairs and garbage and the road had pot holes that were two and a half to three feet deep. But either way it is a civil matter.
Mr. Baden stated that it is definitely a civil matter and doesn’t involve the use they are reviewing because the property has frontage on state route 209. Mr. Dawson is choosing to use the Samsonville access but it has legal frontage.
A lady in the audience stated that if you call 911 that is usually the entrance they come in. So God forbid there is an emergency that is time wasted and could lose a life or a house.
Mr. Dawson stated that he does not see how any emergency vehicle could pass through that way.
Another lady in the audience asked how close the structure is to where the old pipe factory was and how much excavating will be going on.
Mr. Dawson stated that the old pipe factory was not on this property but on Barra-Trumbore’s property which is across the street.
The lady from the audience stated that she is concerned that even if it is as close as 100 feet there were PCB’s in the pipe factory and when that pipe factory burned they had to evacuate them for three days. She lives at the bottom of the hill. She stated that she would just like to know a ground sample and what the situation is and if there is anything that is toxic that could come down towards the hill.
Chairman Baden stated that they are proposing a new well so any well that is drilled the health department has to approve that well. The only construction that is being proposed is just clearing enough space behind the existing building which is across Old Mine Road where the pipe factory was which is at least 125 feet away from the property line.
Mr. Jones asked if Mr. Dawson was proposing any excavation on the property.
Mr. Dawson said no, the building’s already built. He also stated that Barra-Trumbore did a Phase 2 Environmental impact study when he bought his property and that he did a Phase 1 on his property and nothing came up.
Chairman Baden asked if Mr. Dawson could submit his Phase 1 Environmental Impact to the Board. He also stated that he will definitely look into the toxicity of the ground.
Debra Smith stated the she would like Mr. Dawson to address the rumor that she heard about the car rally.
Chairman Baden stated that he can address that. The car rally is not part of the application; it’s not what was referred to the Board so there is no consideration of any permits for that type of use.
Debra Smith asked if there would be a lot of cars in there.
Chairman Baden stated that everything will be stored inside the existing building and that the work that is going to happen there is just restoration of the cars and that the property is in the Industrial zone. There is an assumption with an Industrial zone that there will be noise.
A lady from the audience asked how it can be both industrial and residential.
Chairman Baden stated that the owner can apply for a special use permit to have residential.
Debra Smith stated that her problem is that Mr. Dawson is lying about other things and is concerned what will actually end up happening on the property.
Chairman Baden stated that the board can’t really consider what may or may not happen. The board is reviewing this 9 acre parcel so anything new that happens would have to come back in front of the board and be reviewed. The board is only reviewing this 9 acre parcel and the three uses that are proposed to the board which is the residence, commercial parking on the slab area and the car storage and restoration.
Mr. Williams asked about the frontage on state route 209.
Chairman Baden stated that there is a gravel driveway there and that is the access to the property on a legal stand point. The house that is next to the driveway has a right of way as well as Gaydos’.
Ms. Lindstrom asked if people were coming in through Mr. Dawson property going to Trumbore’s property.
Mr. Dawson stated that no, and showed Ms. Lindstrom on the map how much each one owned.
Chairman Baden stated that Old Mine Road going the other direction is a town road going into Wawarsing.
The board looked at the map and discussed where everything was.
A lady in the audience asked if the board would like copies of the rest of the deeds.
Chairman Baden replied saying certainly and if they had anything they would want to submit for the board to look at, that would be great.
Mr. Williams asked that if the priority of access, if it is written in the deeds, how does that relate to who has permission.
Chairman Baden stated that he does not know and that he will have to speak to the Attorney for the Town and ask her to review them and be able to answer them. Clearly we can see that the Old Mine Ext goes over Mr. Dawson’s property but as far as rights to cross it the Board will have to have the Attorney look at the various deeds. She very well might come back and say that it is a civil matter and does not pertain to this application. The Board is reviewing this in terms of Mr. Dawson has legal access from a public road but he’s choosing to use the other access where it only enters into the discussion a little bit because the Board is talking about commercial parking and the Board has to look at if a commercial vehicle can make it up that driveway.
Debra Smith stated that doesn’t it relate that the neighbors have a right of way and he blocked it off?
Chairman Baden stated that the board and the attorney will have to look over the deeds and determine the access over that property.
Mr. Jones stated that the only review the board can do is pertaining to this property.
A lady from the audience asked how the tractor trailers would come to the property and her concern about extra traffic for trucks going out the other side of Old Mine Road.
Chairman Baden stated that the trucks would come across from Samsonville road like it is proposed in the application.
The lady asked if the trucks only coming from Samsonville Road would be written in the approval.
Chairman Baden stated that he thinks it can but he would have to double check with Attorney Christiana but based on the fact the Board is talking about commercial parking and commercial size parking, the Board could. The board would have to review Mr. Dawson’s right of way to make sure there’s no restriction of commercial vehicles but he assumes there isn’t.
Mr. DeWitt motioned to continue the Public Hearing until the February 13th 2017 meeting. Ms. Lindstrom seconded the motion.
Motion carried. All in favor
Vote:
Baden: Yes Williams: Yes
Lindstrom: Yes Ricks: Absent
Jones: Yes Dewitt: Yes
5 ayes, 0 nays, 1 absent
Debra Smith asked why not everyone that lives there received a public hearing notice.
Chairman Baden stated that the notice is sent to everyone who is within 500 feet of the boundary of the property. On the computer with the assessor’s information the Board draws a circle of 500 feet and anyone that is within 500 feet received it.
A lady in the audience stated that it was wrong because he one neighbor who is farther away received a notice but the one only 25 feet from her did not.
Chairman Baden looked at the map of the boundary lines for the notices.
Chairman Baden stated that he will review the 500 foot boundary line to make sure it was correct.
Mr. Dewitt showed the audience the map with the highlighted property’s within 500 feet of Mr. Dawson’s.
Mr. Dawson returned to the Board at 7:45PM
2016-06 SBD Continued Application
Minor Subdivision
Michael and Jeanette Bazinet
Proposes subdivision of a 75 acre lot into 3 lots, ±13 acres, ±6.5 acres, ±55.5 acres
Melody Lane off Cherrytown Rd., S/B/L 67.-2-39, AR-3 zoning district, Contiguous to Ulster County Ag District #3.
SEQRA: Unlisted Action
Mr. Medenbach, applicant engineer, was present along with the owners.
Chairman Baden noted that at the last meeting the issue of Melody Lane being a private driveway was discussed and the applicants were originally proposing that there will be five lots accessing Melody Lane and under our code we only allow a shared driveway to access three lots including the on it has access over. Since then the applicants submitted new maps where they removed the lot line that is shown on lot 3 so lot 3 will be expanded making the driveway only servicing four lots not five.
Mr. Medenbach stated that there are already 3 houses there so there would only be one new house.
Chairman Baden stated that with speaking with Attorney Christiana because the applicants are now proposing a lot line adjustment as well. The Board needs them to fill out a lot line adjustment application without a fee due to being part of the subdivision.
Mr. Jones asked what the width of the existing road is now.
Mr. Medenbach replied that the width varies being 15 feet to 20 feet.
Mr. Jones stated that he thought the board was asking if it’s more than 3 lots the road would have to be 18 feet.
Mr. Dawson replied saying that the applicants propose adding a turn out.
Mr. Medenbach noted that they acquired a letter from the fire department chief that stated one more house would not affect them getting to the houses with emergency vehicles. Mr. Medenbach also stated that the problem is that there are physical restrictions that make it difficult and expensive to obtain the width that is necessary for the road. There is a stream crossing with a very large pipe. The pipe is 20 feet at the moment and that would have to be extending or replace the whole thing along with a DEC permit. There are embankment areas that would require excavating and clearing. Mr. Medenbach also investigated the state building code requirements for emergency vehicle access and the applicant will meet that standard. The only thing the applicant needs to do in order to meet the requirement is create a pull off area within the first 500 feet. There is also plenty of space at the driveways for a turn around.
Chairman Baden asked Mr. Medenbach how long the entire driveway from Cherrytown Rd to the last existing house.
Mr. Medenbach replied stated it’s over 1000 feet.
Chairman Baden stated that his concern is that they are proposing one turn around within the first 500 feet and you’re proposing the driveways would be an additional turn about?
Mr. Medenbach replied stating yes.
Chairman Baden noted that the turn outs are basically for if two fire trucks had to pass. One could pull off and let the other pass by. It’s not necessarily for them to turn around, just to pass by.
Mr. Medenbach stated that there is a turnaround requirement too in the state code.
Mr. Jones asked Mr. Medenbach where they proposed to put the turn around.
Mr. Medenbach states that up at the last house there is a large area, but it doesn’t show it on the map accurately but there’s a big turnaround into that first lot where the stone wall is.
Chairman Baden asked Mr. Medenbach about the foundation where the well is off to the left on the map. He noticed looking at the history of the aerial view that there was what looked to be a mobile home there at one point.
Mr. Bazinet replied saying that his brother in law moved his father up there from Florida years ago and put a trailer on that foundation but it is no longer there and they are not proposing anything to be there.
Mr. Jones asked if there was anything else on the map that doesn’t exist anymore or anything else.
Chairman Baden stated that the foundation does exist and that he only noticed it looking back about 12 years ago a home appeared there.
Chairman Baden noted that the reality is that if they didn’t do the subdivision they could put another house on the property but then the son couldn’t secure the financing without it being in his name.
Mr. Jones said that it is making sense that there needs to be more than one turnaround.
Chairman Baden replied stating that the driveways would be considered the turnarounds.
Chairman Baden read the emergency vehicle access stating that driveways in excess of 500 feet in length and less than 20 feet in width shall be provided with turnouts along the driveway which are a minimum of 20 feet in width.
Chairman asked if the driveways were 20 feet in width.
Mr. Medenbach said that it’s really for two vehicles to pass and it’s not like you have to add 20 feet for the turnaround.
Chairman Baden stated that the code wants 50 feet in length and 20 feet in width for it to be considered a turnaround.
Mr. Medenbach stated that he deals with this code all the time in other towns and that the code is always interpreted that way as the total width. The fire department said if it gives 20 feet that’s fine.
Mr. Jones noted that the code says 20 feet for a turn out not in addition to the driveway.
Mr. Medenbach replied asking that what Mr. Jones is trying to say is that the existing driveway doesn’t count as part of the turnaround.
Mr. Jones stated that he is going by what is in the code. You asked us to make an exception for one more lot. It says 20 feet and you want us to make another exception and he is reading this and it says 20 feet in addition to the roadway.
Ms. Lindstrom stated that it doesn’t say in addition it says a minimum of 20 feet in width for a turnaround.
Mr. Medenbach stated that he interprets the code as that part of the driveway is part of the turnaround because you’re passing two vehicles. One can be in the driveway and one can be in the adjacent area. The total width has to be at least 20 feet. That’s the way the code has been interpreted by other agents and that’s the way they had always interpreted it.
Chairman Baden states that he could clarify if the board would like with Mr. Davis with how he interprets it because he is the one that actually enforces fire code.
Mr. Jones stated that he could like to see the code on the map.
Ms. Lindstrom added that the driveway would meet the statistics for a disturbed area if it was to be widened because there is a lot of marshy streams along it you’re weighing a little bit here. If you made a great big road they would be disturbing a lot of area and then we have a disturbed area problem.
Mr. Jones states that if anything in the back lot is done at a later time it’s a different ball game and would have to come back to the planning board for review. Also if that lot is developed into three, four or five more lots the road exception would not apply anymore.
Chairman Baden stated that the board could make it a condition with any approval that we consider that any future development would require redevelopment of the access driveway. That the waiver is granted for this configuration only.
Chairman Baden stated that the lot borders state agricultural land but the board does not have to refer it to the county because it is less than a four lot subdivision, it’s only a three lot.
Chairman Baden asked if the board had already classified this for SEQRA.
Chairman Baden asked the board if they would like to vote on the exception or wait until we get Mr. Davis’ answer.
Mr. Dawson made the motion to accept the waiver request for the width of the road contingent upon the input of Mr. Davis. Mr. Dewitt seconded the motion.
Motioned carried. All in favor.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Williams: Yes
Lindstrom: Yes Ricks: Absent
Dawson: Yes Jones: Yes
Dewitt: Yes
6 ayes, 0 nays, 1 absent, 0 abstentions
Mr. Dawson motioned that this application is classified as an unlisted action under SEQRA. Mr. Jones seconded the motion.
Roll call vote, all in favor
Chairman Baden – Aye
Dawson – Aye
Dewitt – Aye
Lindstrom – Aye
Williams – Aye
Jones – Aye
Ms. Lindstrom motioned to schedule the application for a public hearing on February 13th 2017. Mr. Dewitt seconded.
Motioned carried. All in favor.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Williams: Yes
Lindstrom: Yes Ricks: Absent
Dawson: Yes Jones: Yes
Dewitt: Yes
6 ayes, 0 nays, 1 absent, 0 abstentions
2016-07 SUP Continued Application, Public Hearing
Amendment to PB decision 1997-06 SUP
Sandy Krupp
Proposes amendment to PB decision 1997-06 SUP granting approval to convert a dairy barn into a cabinet woodworking shop.
10 Queens Highway, S/B/L 76.2-2-6.211, B and AP Overlay zoning district, Contiguous to Ulster County Ag District #3.
SEQRA: Unlisted Action
Chairman Baden stated that the board will wait to discuss anything until after the applicants come back with an answer from the Zoning Board of Appeals.
17-01 LLI New Application
Lot Line Improvement
Joyce Burstein – Traver Family Trust
Proposes transfer of 0.4 acres between 2 contiguous lots
857 & 863 Samsonville Rd, S/B/L 60.3-2-36.1 and 60.3-2-37, R-2 zoning district
Chairman Baden states that the applicant is proposing a lot line adjustment. He added that the board does not have an actual survey map yet from the applicant’s surveyor. Right now we have a sketch map. Normally the Board would want to see the final map but he agreed that the Board would look at the sketch and what could be done is accept it pending receipt of the final map and just authorize the Chairman to sign it as long as he verifies what is proposed matches the sketch. The applicant had issues getting her surveyor out there in time.
Ms. Burstein states that she just wants to give her neighbor the section right behind their property.
Chairman Baden noted that both lots will still meet zoning code. He also states that a few years back Ms. Burstein bought both lots and combined the two into one lot.
Mr. Dewitt asked if the property was occupied now.
Ms. Burstein replied stating yes, she lives there now but she is trying to sell it. She also explains that the reason this is all happening is because she wants to retain a storage shed and the exchange is that she’s going to give the Travers this little piece behind their house and they’re going to give her permission to put the storage shed on their property where it’s nice and flat.
Chairman Baden stated that even though they only have the sketch map and not the final he would ask for a motion certifying this lot improvement and authorizing him to sign the final document pending agreement of the final plan with the proposal.
Ms. Burstein noted that the line the surveyor drew was just an estimate and it could be more than 32 feet.
Mr. Dawson made a motion to certify the lot improvement and authorizing Chairman Baden to sign the final document. Ms. Lindstrom seconded.
Motion carried. All in favor.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Williams: Yes
Lindstrom: Yes Ricks: Absent
Dawson: Yes Jones: Yes
Dewitt: Yes
6 ayes, 0 nays, 1 absent, 0 abstentions
Mr. Dewitt motioned to adjourn the meeting at 8:17PM. Mr. Williams seconded it. All in favor
Respectfully Submitted,
Shaye Davis, Secretary
Accepted on February, 13th 2017