PLANNING BOARD
TOWN OF ROCHESTER
ULSTER COUNTY
ACCORD, NEW YORK
(845) 626-2434
torpbzba@hvc.rr.com
MINUTES OF August 11, 2014 the Town of Rochester PLANNING BOARD, held at the TOWN of Rochester Community Center, Accord, NY.
Chairman Baden asked that everyone stand to say the Pledge to the Flag.
The Secretary did roll call attendance.
PRESENT: ABSENT: Michael Baden, Chairman Cindy Fornino, Alternate
Adam Paddock Melvyn I. Tapper
Fred O’Donnell
John Dawson
Shane Ricks
Also present:
Rebecca Paddock Stange, Secretary, Mary Lou Christiana, Attorney for the Town
Chairman Baden noted that there was a quorum and noted that there was a sign up sheet for the Flying Change Farms Public Hearing.
ANNOUNCEMENTS
Chairman Baden noted that Mr. Rominger had resigned from the Planning Board. Until the time when the Town Board replaces his position, alternate Cindy Fornino will be sitting on the Board in his place. She was on vacation currently.
Trainings:
Mr. Paddock and the Chairman attended a training in Kingston at the end of July by the Association of Towns and it was a very good training. He will pass along information as it comes in for more trainings. He reminded members to get their 4 innings in by the end of December.
MINUTES
Mr. Dawson motioned to accept the June 2014 minutes. Seconded by Mr. Paddock. No discussion.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Tapper: Absent
O’Donnell: Yes Ricks: Yes
Dawson: Yes Paddock: Yes
Motion carried. 5 ayes, 0 nays, 1 absent, 0 abstentions
Mr. Dawson motioned to accept the July 2014 Minutes. Seconded by Mr. Paddock. No discussion.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Tapper: Absent
O’Donnell: Yes Ricks: Yes
Dawson: Yes Paddock: Yes
Motion carried. 5 ayes, 0 nays, 1 absent, 0 abstentions
APPLICATION REVIEW
PB 2014-05 SPA Continued Application, Public Hearing
Site Plan review – Commercial Stables
Flying Change Farm LLC – Diane Schoonmaker and Patrick Williams,
Proposes construction of a 73’ x 140’ indoor riding arena. The lot is located in Ulster County
Agricultural District #3.
235 Airport Rd., S/B/L #69.3-1-12.2, ‘AR-3’ zoning district
Mr. Moriello, Attorney was present along with applicants, Diane SChoonmaker and Patrick Williams.
Chairman Baden noted that the last meeting they had discussed the 30’ requirement of open space access around the arena based on the Fire Code. The applicant has shown that on plan revisions and moved the parking spaces that were adjacent to the arena to along the driveway. They will use the field for over flow parking as discussed in previous meetings. As required under NYS Law as it is located in an Ag District, this was referred to the UCPB, but the Board couldn’t achieve a quorum. What that means is that until such time as the UCPB either sends their comments or 30 days has passed since the day they received the referral, which was July 24th ,the TORPB cannot take final action on this application. That is a NY State Law unable to be waived. The Public Hearing will be opened, hear the comments, and see what action to take after that, but no decision could be made at this meeting.
Mr. Moriello noted that there was a question from a ZBA member as to why this was a Type II action under SEQRA. He noted that he had a submittal to the Board that was all submitted to the ZBA as part of the case law and he brought copies for the PB to say why it is Type II irrespective to the fact that the house across the street is historical.
Chairman Baden noted that he was welcome to submit them, but to him it was a moot point because at the last meeting the Board had declared the action a Type II at the last meeting by unanimous decision. The ZBA Member referred to is not acting in any official capacity.
Mr. Moriello submitted the information.
At 7:10PM Chairman Baden opened the Hearing to the public.
Chairman Baden noted that he would start by going in order with the names that are written on the list and then allow anyone else who wants to speak to do so. The Board is here to hear what everyone has to say, but in the expediency of time, if people were making the same comments that was already made, please don’t belabor the point. The more times it is said, doesn’t change the fact that the comment is made. He wasn’t a fan of limiting speaking time, but he did ask that the comments and points were moved along so they could be fair to everyone. The second thing he was asking was that they public understood that people were here because they wanted to speak, but please refrain from applause. The more they have to wait for that, the longer the public hearing takes. The goal is to move this through as quickly and efficiently as possible. The third thing he wanted to say was that the Board was reviewing a Site Plan review for a use that was referred by the Code Enforcement Officer. They were not reviewing the applicants. He was happy to hear everything that everyone wants to say about them, but it’s not pertinent to the review. They can’t consider it in the decision making. It didn’t matter who was applying, the Board was reviewing a project, a building and a use. He asked for the Public’s indulgence and asked that they don’t stray their comments directed about the people, because it is nothing that the Board can consider.
Mr. Moriello noted that Bob Somers from the NYS Dept. of Agriculture was present and he could answer any of the Board’s questions.
Chairman Baden noted that he was going to give Mr. Somers the courtesy of speaking first if he wanted to.
Mr. Somers noted that if anyone had any questions he could answer them. Part of the review of this process is for the applicant to proceed with the PB and ZBA and he was not at the meeting to influence the Board’s decision.
Chairman Baden noted that when speaking, the public was speaking to the Board, not the other members of the public. If there are questions, they may or may not be able to answer them and they may or may not choose to answer them.
Maren Lindstrom was first to speak. She spoke at the ZBA meeting and she has a second house here. They drew a big circle outside of NYC on where they would want to build a second house. When you look at all the Town’s around here, we are in competition. There is an incredible uniqueness of a mix of agricultural/ rural in the Kerhonkson/Accord area that you don’t have other places. We need to preserve that because it is a wonderful unique asset to offer. If it is hard to have an agricultural business, you lose that. The process needs to be made easier and to embrace people that want to have an Ag business. The Board through Zoning have an incredible responsibility because they create the flavor of the area. The Zoning changes an entire community.
Chairman Baden noted that this application, while it may seem that this process has taken a long time, was first applied for to the PB in March and was withdrawn at the applicant’s request and was only resubmitted last month. So, the actual process of the actual Board’s involvement has just reached the second month. People may feel like the over all process may have taken a while, but part of it was because it was withdrawn and the determination was challenged to the ZBA. Some of it was out of the Town’s control.
Joanne Garland has been a friend of Ms. Schoonmaker’s for a number of years. How would anyone feel if they were in her position and had her hands tied. The Town of Marbletown Board Members noted that they would have let her go on with her riding stables while this process went on. Why are her hands tied that she can’t do that? Thinking about the livelihood and all the kids that are losing time with their horses.
Chairman Baden noted that he can’t speak for Marbletown, and he didn’t know that it was a true fact, but the Town of Rochester has to follow the laws as they exist.
Chip Watson was the Mid Hudson Vice President for the NYS Horse Council. Part of her job was to help horse people in the area and to monitor what is going on in the horse arena in NY. A lot of people don’t realize how much money the horse community brings to NY. If it’s lost everyone loses a lot of money. There is a lot of legislation going on as they are trying to keep the horse community going. There is quite an agricultural area up here. She thinks the Town needs to work to preserve that. It would be to the Town’s benefit financially to keep horse farms going. They work hand and hand with Ag & Markets to maintain this horse industry. She looks at horse places as to who is doing a good job and how are the horses being taken care of. With Ms. Schoonmaker’s place- the horses and farm are well kept. A lot of tourists would come by and look at the place and want to move here. She also provides a safe environment for youth. Keeping horses and kids together seems to make sense. This is what she was here for as a member of the horse council and this is what she wanted to promote.
Tom Henneberry was next to speak. He didn’t think that Diane Schoonmaker was the problem. They had one ding dong say that it was an eyesore for the Town of Rochester. The real eyesore Hasidic Camp on Mill Hook Road and the Rainbow Diner Those are real eyesores. Diane Schoonmaker does a great thing for little children and it was amazing how the Board was letting her go through this process and one ding dong says something wrong and now it’s Diane’s fault. He thinks it’s the Town’s fault and they better fix it.
Debra Duwann was next to speak. She was the Executive Director of the Rondout Valley Growers Association. She wanted to note that they were all about farming and community. They were in the middle of a study of agriculture in the Rondout Valley. Over 30% of the Town of Rochester is agriculture. Of the Rondout Valley a 3rd of agriculture is in the Town of Rochester. The Town has already indicated that agriculture is important as it is in the Code under Chapter 75. Encourages the practice of farming. NYS Law includes Equine Operations and prohibits local government from unreasonably restricting agricultural process. There are other sections to site. By exposure, Ms. Schoonmaker has been elected to serve on the Board. She has served previously. She started the RVGA scholarship for graduating high school students. This isn’t a matter of a person, or a family, or an organization, it is a matter of policy and law. Based on those that are in effect, in an Ag District, they believe that the site plan should be approved. This could have impact on the long term viability of farming in this area.
Donna Putnam, the President of the Ulster County Horse Council agreed with everything that had already been said.
Troy Dunn was next to speak. Mr. Dunn noted that he found it amazing that if anyone went to the March PB meeting to the July meeting there was a huge difference. He thought in July that the PB was very nice compared to the March meeting where he heard things like Type 1 SEQRA, screening, water run off and problems on Airport Road and the most ludicrous one was did the building come in any other colors. Now we go to the July meeting and once again, it was very nice and he appreciated that and he takes that there was a lot of education learned between the March Meeting and the July Meeting, would that be correct?
Chairman Baden agreed.
Mr. Dunn stated that since the Board admits to that, the next thing that they would suggest would be a really nice letter to the Schoonmakers and Patrick Williams because that education was at the expense of them. Expense monetarily, physically, and emotionally. Lastly he agreed with the lady who spoke first. Zoning, Comp Plans, they aren’t just slippery slopes. As the Town of Rochester, they are probably more on the precipice of the fall off. So, if they think this is only applicable to people who are building horse stables and barns, they are wrong, as a member of the ZBA, he sees people coming before him about fences. What’s next? The color of your house? He already heard the color of your barn, so that’s next. They are call unreasonable restrictions on this case. On this case it’s Ag, it could be you as a home owner.
Mr. Dawson noted that as they had already heard, and since they are all here for an earnest reason, join a Board. There are many vacancies, that’s the way you do it and that’s why a lot of them are here—to help maintain. He knows that’s why Mr. Dunn is on the Board and that’s why he is on the Board. He believes it’s why everyone is. Join a Board and help the community.
Matt Dennin was next to speak and noted that he lives right next to Ms. Schoonmaker and one day he looked out and there was a big barn, so he said, ‘great’. He went to all the meetings and heard all the nonsense going back and forth. So he went there the other day and checked it all out. He doesn’t think there is a farmer in the whole US that wouldn’t want one of those barns. This thing is beautiful. Its much safer if a kid falls off. There isn’t one thing out of place, she is trying to do the right thing, lets get her through this and get her to use it.
Eve Kunan and John Carr were next to speak. Ms. Kunan didn’t understand the application process.
Chairman Baden noted that what is happening right now is that this Board has a referral from the CEO who reviews every land use application. He has referred it for Site Plan Approval by the PB. What that means is it is a principle permitted use. The use is approved, what they are reviewing is the site plan itself which is how the use fits on the property, how the structure fits on the property. They are reviewing it to make sure it meets all NYS health and safety regulations. For example the 30’ buffer area that needs to remain clear around the structure. That is a NYS regulation. It’s not something the Town has imposed, nothing that the Board has chosen to impose. What the PB has to do is to put the plan against State and Town Laws and make sure they are in compliance.
Mr. O’Donnnell noted that most of the time, people come to the Board before something like this is built. The problem we have here is that this was built ahead of this process. That’s part of the problem. Normally people would go to the Building Inspector, he would refer it to the PB before ground was even broken on it. In reality its already on the ground, so the Board has to try and deal with what is there.
Chairman Baden noted that they did receive a building permit for the building, but because it is used for the public is why they are here. If they were using it strictly for their own use, they wouldn’t be here. Because the public is accessing it, the Town has a responsibility to make sure that it is done safely and that’s what this process is.
Ms. Kunan questioned wasn’t it stated in the initial papers that it was going to be used for riding lessons?
Chairman Baden noted that it wasn’t in the initial paperwork for the building itself to his knowledge.
Ms. Kunan was here at the very first PB meeting and she thinks this is a huge injustice. Putting the applicants through this process and making them go through all of this pain and suffering sets a terrible precedent and it was already said so beautifully about agriculture land being protected. NYS Law mandates that Agricultural operations are protected against these regulations. In 2011 Ag and Markets, Section 301 was amended to add Commercial Equine Operations. The Town Building Inspector did issue that building permit for the riding arena and based on that, she spent$140,000 detrimentally. Then the Building Inspector changed his mind and issued a new permit and required PB approval the day before the building was completed. That’s kind of late. Then the PB is requiring Site Plan Approval retroactively. It says very clearly that site plan review is to be done prior to issuing a building permit. It even says that the CEO needs to check codes prior to issuing the permit. These kinds of Ag Buildings shouldn’t be going through site plan approval at all. Also, some local governments that want to have review on these types of applications need to do it before the building is issued a permit. As we all know Mr. Rominger doesn’t like the look of the building and appears to want to protect historic barns, but that’s not the law. Agriculture isn’t always pretty. Then Mr. Rominger’s Attorney’s claims that there were potential fire hazards, they were addressed by Ms. Schoonmaker’s Architect, by the ZBA, and by Brian Tollison of the NYS DEPT of Codes in his March 25th letter. Farming is a community service and Ms. Schoonmaker should be subsidized and made financially whole for this 6 month ordeal that never should have happened. This is an Ag District. Rominger’s own historic barns are wooden and more prone to being a fire hazard. To restrict Ag use and an Ag building is against the NYS Constitution and Ag & Markets Law.
John Carr urged the Board to move forward with the approval quickly. He also wanted to know how she would be made whole again?
Mark Adams was next to speak as the representative from the District 10 Farm Bureau. As a member, he wanted to say that he supported the application completely.
Kathy Fallon was next to speak on behalf of Congressman Gibson and she was there to offer their support. Anything that grows the agricultural business and small business, they are totally behind.
Chairman Baden noted that part of the problem with this is that there is a serious conflict between Ag & Markets Law and NYS Fire and Building Code. The Ag & Markets Law was changed in 2011 and it sets up some conflicts with types of uses. Under Building Code, this building is not considered an Ag building because the public is accessing it. Under Ag & Markets Law, the use is considered a farm operation and that has been a major part of the discrepancy. The Board has spent a lot of time sorting their way through unchartered waters because there is no case law out there. If the Congressman has any influence with NYS Officials to correct any of the conflicts, it would be appreciated.
Mr. Somers of Ag & Markets noted that it was more of a misunderstanding as Ag & Markets doesn’t look at the Building Code. It looks at Zoning. They have horse riding arena, farm markets, farm worker housing, green houses. Any time the public enters the structure, they have to comply with the Building Code. The Dept. is supportive of that for Public Health and Safety. A lot of times, municipalities look at green houses and other farming entities as commercial. They tell farmers routinely that they have to comply with the State Building Code. Even though this is an Ag structure and the public is going to visit, they wanted to find out what the Code Requirements were because there was a lot of misunderstanding that was occurring around the State Building Code They are not experts, that is why they reach out to the Dept. of State. They are compatible with one another. Ag & Markets law looks at Zoning and the application of Zoning.
Chairman Baden noted that the letter from Mr. Tollison was in response from a letter from the PB requesting interpretation. He also talked about fire access, which falls under the site plan review process.
Gail Christman and she was a Member of the ZBA in the Town of New Paltz and she was also a horse owner and boards her horse at a facility that does have both indoor and outdoor riding rings. She was blessed to grow up around horses. There is something important about being able to work with horses year round for children’s responsibility levels. It’s also safe to ride inside during bad weather.
Elizabeth Higgins spoke next. She noted that people don’t realize how economically important the horse industry is. In the last 5 years the horse industry went from about $500,000 to a 3.5 Million dollar operation in Ulster County. This is a thin margin business. The difference between profitability is in the riding lessons. Horse boarding is what most people tend to think of, but what allows that to be viable is the additional business that the lessons bring. No other livestock in the County that comes close to the economic value than the Equine industry.
Julie Harris owns and operates a riding school and agrees with the thin margins. She was thinking of building in this area, but after watching this process she is rethinking that because it is looking like it may be too difficult. This is a viable large industry in the area. They are looking for reasons for people to come to this area. She gets call after call from people who drive by and then want to come to a riding lesson. When people come to farms, they don’t just get exposed to horses, there are other animals as well that they get exposed to. She took her miniature pony to Rondout Valley Middle School for career day and do you know how many kids walked up to her and asked if it was a llama? She also hopes she will be compensated in some way.
Janet Dewitt was a neighbor to the applicants and read a letter written by her sister Margaret, who couldn’t attend. . She owns Domino Farms. The letter is in support of Flying Change Farms and hopes the Town gets further training on this type of review when it comes to property in an Ag District. This application has made other people question if they would want to go through this process.
Chris Kelder, owner of Kelder’s Farm urged the PB to expedite the process no matter who was at fault. This was a business that needed to operate.
Raquel Roden noted that she just started taking lessons and the building is a modern building, but it was important to embrace modern, even if they don’t compliment the old barns. We don’t want to go back in time- bad lighting, and horse and buggies, and such. Embrace modern part of our civilization within the historic district.
Gordy Bell was a local farmer and agreed with Chris Kelder’s statement.
Jack Schoonmaker was next to speak. He noted that Agriculture is very important in NY State. It is the number 2 industry behind tourism. NY State is very proud- they are number 3 in Dairy and number 2 in apples. Many years ago he spent a lot of time in Albany with other local farmers testifying to promote Ag Laws to protect the farmers and neighbors of farmers. Without Ag Laws, many farmers wouldn’t farm in NYS. The Board should follow guidelines of the Ag District.
Lillian Hall Davis noted that when Diane Schoonmaker went to college she brought her horse. How many people do that?
Paul Kortright noted that he is a retired NYS Trooper and he is now a full time farmer. If he ever makes a profit, he will let everyone know. He’s concerned with what the decision of the Board is going to do to the State, County, and Town and the Board should bear that in mind. He was with the NYS Police for 32 years. During that time he enforced many laws. One thing that they need to take into consideration is the intent of the law. When there is an intent to allow farming- the right to farm laws- that’s the intent of Ag District and Ag Laws and that should be taken into consideration.
John Fitzpatrick questioned when the 30 day time frame would be up and at what point would a decision would be made?
Chairman Baden noted that the Board’s next meeting is Sept. 8th and the 30 days is up on August 24th.
A member of the public asked if the County were to submit comments within those 30 days could the Board then act on it?
Chairman Baden noted that the Board could act any time after they receive comments. If the UCPB submits comments 2 days before the Board takes a final action, they are required to consider the comments even if it’s after the 30 days. The comments could have been No county Impact. Advisory Comments, Required Modifications, or Disapproved. The County almost never disapproves an application. The County’s next meeting would be September 3rd.
Mr. Kelder questioned if they could make a decision with a contingency on the County response?
Attorney for the Town, Mary Lou Christiana noted that legally they couldn’t do that.
Chairman Baden noted that he appreciated all comments and read a letter received dated August 11, 2014 from Steven Brinlee, a bounding owner. He asked if conditions could be imposed to mitigate noise and light intrusions on neighbors along with protecting the current viewshed and screening.
Mr. Dawson motioned to close the Public Hearing. Seconded by Mr. Ricks.
Discussion:
Chairman Baden noted that it has been past practice to hold Public Hearings open until County comments were received.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Tapper: Absent
O’Donnell: Yes Ricks: Yes
Dawson: Yes Paddock: Yes
Motion carried. 5 ayes, 0 nays, 1 absent, 0 abstentions
Chairman Baden noted that the Planning Board has 62 days to make a decision. He didn’t think they would be taking that long. He believed from the indication from the Board that they would receive the County Comments and at the next meeting, they would make their decision. This is a permitted use. They are reviewing the site plan.
At this time the Board took a 5 minute recess.
PB 2014-04 SBD Continued Application, Public Hearing
Minor Subdivision
Wilfred and David Neff
Proposes subdivision of land resulting in 3 lots. The lot is located in Ulster County Agricultural
District #3.
12 Pompey’s Cave Road, S/B/L #69.4-2-7.111, ‘AR-3’, ‘AP Overlay’ and ‘FD Overlay’ zoning
districts
Chairman Baden noted that the applicant and his surveyer are still trying to sort out the questions about the 4th lot and they were not ready to continue the Public Hearing.
Mr. Ricks motioned to continue the Public Hearing upon receipt of the new information. Seconded by Mr. O’Donnell.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Tapper: Absent
O’Donnell: Yes Ricks: Yes
Dawson: Yes Paddock: Yes
Motion carried. 5 ayes, 0 nays, 1 absent, 0 abstentions
PB 2014-03 LLI Continued application
Lot Improvement
Primax Properties, LLC (applicant) as agent for David and Claudia Waruch and Eric Gilles (owners)
Proposes conveyance of +/- .138 acres of land involving 2 contiguous lots.
Route 209, S/B/L #76.9-2-39 and #76.9-2-40 (also includes lands known as S/B/L #76.13-3-21 in
the Town of Wawarsing) ‘H’, ‘AP Overlay’ and ‘FD Overlay’ zoning districts
PB 2014-04 SUP Continued Application
Special Use
Primax Properties, LLC (applicant) as agent for Eric Gilles (owner)
Proposes development for the construction of a 9,224 square foot Dollar General retail store and
associated parking/loading areas
Route 209 and 6 Webster Ave., S/B/L #76.9-2-40 (also includes lands known as S/B/L #76.13-3-21
in the Town of Wawarsing), ‘H’, ‘AP Overlay’ and ‘FD Overlay’ zoning districts
Lawrence Marshall, Engineer and Jay Zeiger, Attorney were present on behalf of the application.
Mr. Marshall noted that nothing had changed as far as the overall layout. All they added was additional details and they provided the details of the signs that are being proposed. The wall mounted sign would be channel letters mounted above the entrance. The proposed monument sign would be by the parking lot entrance and would be 4’ x 8’.One aspect of this is that it does say dark gray shroud on the sign detail. That is intended to be black, not gray. They went with the TOR standards as they were more restrictive. He also noted that they have supplied the SWPPP to both Rochester and Wawarsing (TOW).
Chairman Baden questioned if the DEC was reviewing it as well?
Mr. Marshall noted that they did not. The DEC allows for the local review by engineers to make sure that it is satisfactory to them before they submit to the DEC. It’s a 5 day permit process.
Chairman Baden noted that as a board they have to agree, but he’d like to submit this application to their consultant with the fees reflected to the applicant. No one on the Board had the expertise to review the calculations.
Mr. Zeiger noted that they would want to confirm with their client that it was acceptable. He would recommend that it was. The only suggestion they could make was to work something out so they didn’t have two different engineers between the two Towns looking at the same report. He would recommend that it should be one person at the property owners expense.
Chairman Baden noted that they would direct their own engineer to only review the Rochester portion.
Mrs. Christiana and other Board Members thought that might be hard to have them review just Rochester portion. She questioned if the Town had an officially appointed engineer?
Chairman Baden answered, yes. Clark Patterson Lee.
Mrs. Christiana noted that Lanc and Tully would do the review for the Town of Wawarsing. They could have Lanc & Tully do the review for both Towns since they were already reviewing it for the TOW.
Mr. Ricks thought that they needed to review the whole thing, not just by Town. If we had out engineer do it, he’d have to review the whole thing as well.
Chairman Baden noted that under the Code, the PB can retain anyone they want.
Mr. Zeiger asked if Lanc & Tully had been retained?
Mrs. Christiana answered, yes.
Chairman Baden noted that in our Code, Town Approval is conditioned on DEC approval of the SWPPP, so the Town can just accept the DEC approval and comments. He would like an expert to look at the turning radius in the parking area that has been discussed already. There is no case law to tell the Board how to do this review that is split between two towns. They have regulatory power over everything that is in their town, and advisory power over everything else.
Mr. Ricks noted that the Town of Rochester only has 9 parking spots and the rest is in the TOW.
Chairman Baden noted that he broke down our Code requirements with the section number of what is in the TOR and TOW.
Mr. Marshall noted that the design is in compliance with the regulations. To treat and retain the stormwater run off they have a bio retention facility on the rear of the building. One of the main changes that happened was that previously they had shown an HVAC pad on the rear of the building. With the new proto type, that will no longer be there and that has opened up an area on the rear, so it allows the whole rear to look like a lawn grass area. The water will filter through, collect in the under drains and then be conveyed out. They are filling in a portion of the flood plains as part of this application. They are excavating out the overall result of an increase in the amount of storage. It offsets and then some by the amount that is being used. Over all as they show in their report, the water coming off of the site will decrease as part of this application.
Chairman Baden questioned if that would change what was presented last month with the sod and roof line?
Mr. Marshall answered, no. They will revise the plans and show the HVAC units. As far as aesthetically it would remain the same as they had been proposing. They will provide a rendering showing the units on the building.
Mr. Zeiger noted that as he understood it from Primax is that they are now the regional developer on behalf of Dollar General. Dollar General has provided them with guidelines as to what is built. There is a Dollar General in Ellenville and this will look nothing like that. There is a new Dollar General that Primax has developed in Fallsburg and this will be quite similar.
Mr. Marshall noted that in addition to sewer and water connections and new curb stops, they have shown landscaping and lighting as well. The lighting plan complies with UC Planning Dept. guidelines for lighting. They will be fully downward shielded. No glares to worry about. The Dollar General signs are not LED. All interior lighting will be fluorescent.
Chairman Baden noted that the County will push the LED lighting. How tall were the poles going to be in relation to the building?
Mr. Mashall noted that the main part of the building was 18’ and the peak is 29’, so the poles would be below the center peak at 25’. They have to be able to accomplish the shielded light, but still light the lot, they have to go a little higher to keep the fixture flat and a better distribution of light. The locations are shown in the plan. The lights can be put on timers to turn off an hour after closing. They ask for an hour so they can accommodate the employees leaving. The propane tanks are 1,000 gallons buried. The highest point of that retaining wall is 9’. Around the side the building toward Webster, it goes from nothing to a maximum of 9’ on the back wall. There will be a safety fence along the top side of that wall. They had discussed terracing the landscaping with the County, if it was above 6’ in height along Webster. The max height along Webster is 5.5’. They will shield that wall with some landscaping. They don’t want anyone on the wall.
Mr. Paddock noted that the plan says that they are going to plant 60’ tall juniper trees along Webster?
Mr. Marshall noted that was definitely a typo. He further noted that DOT has signed off on the entrance.
Chairman Baden noted that he still has an issue with the truck access.
Mr. Zeiger noted that this is what the Dollar General uses and it works.
Mr. Mashall noted that it is a typical parking layout. They provided the Board with a truck turning diagram to show that it will work. The new stores operate the same way. They operate and don’t seem to have an issue.
Mr. Paddock noted that the area did seem pretty tight.
Mr. O’Donnell noted that he believed a fire truck could get in there with no problems. He thought the delivery worked well—was it perfect? No.
Chairman Baden questioned if the applicant checked with the Town of Wawarsing about a left hand turn out on Webster Ave only?
Mr. Marshall noted that they had talked about that originally, but the TOWPB doesn’t want this coming out on Webster.
Mrs. Christiana agreed.
Mr. Marshall noted that when they had the building rotated 90 degrees they came so far down in the flood plain that they would need 200’ of linear pipe. Any Webster access doesn’t make the project economically possible.
Chairman Baden understood and would present it to the engineer. DOT may have signed off on the entrance, but they are only looking at the right of way and curbing onto Route 209.
Mr. Ricks motioned to use the same engineer as the Town of Wawarsing Planning Board. Seconded by Mr. Dawson. No discussion.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Tapper: Absent
O’Donnell: Yes Ricks: Yes
Dawson: Yes Paddock: Yes
Motion carried. 5 ayes, 0 nays, 1 absent, 0 abstentions
Chairman Baden noted that he would write a cover letter to Lanc and Tully and refer to our Code and figure out how to handle the billing.
Mr. Zeiger questioned if they were planning on a joint Public Hearing?
Chairman Baden suggested that the talk about having another gateway meeting with the County.
Mr. Zeiger thought that a joint Public Hearing or joint meetings with Wawarsing would be more important.
Chairman Baden also felt that holding a joint meeting with Wawarsing needed to happen, prior to the Public Hearing.
Mrs. Christiana noted that this was definitely something that needed to happen, but it was more of a question of coordinating that.
Chairman Baden noted that he has not had any conversations with Wawarsing and has no idea what their concerns are. The Board should no those things along with having an engineer’s report prior to scheduling a Public Hearing.
Mr. Zeiger noted that the time frame to hold a Public Hearing varies from community to community. Some Towns like to hold them early on in the process, and some hold them later.
Mrs. Christiana noted that they should send a letter to Wawarsing noting that they were interested in having a joint meeting.
The Board discussed possible dates and locations and agreed that for the Public Hearing that the Kerhonkson Fire House would be a good location. As for the joint meeting with Wawarsing, the Board would ask if they could join the September 16th Town of Wawarsing PB meeting to discuss everything. A letter would be sent to this effect.
Mr. O’Donnell motioned to send a letter to the Town of Wawarsing asking for a joint meeting to happen on September 16th at their regular meeting. Seconded by Mr. Dawson. No discussion.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Tapper: Absent
O’Donnell: Yes Ricks: Yes
Dawson: Yes Paddock: Yes
Motion carried. 5 ayes, 0 nays, 1 absent, 0 abstentions
Mr. O’Donnell motioned to refer the application to the UCPB pending the corrections received by August 20th. Seconded by Mr. Dawson. No discussion.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Tapper: Absent
O’Donnell: Yes Ricks: Yes
Dawson: Yes Paddock: Yes
Motion carried. 5 ayes, 0 nays, 1 absent, 0 abstentions
Chairman Baden noted that they would discuss doing either a joint SEQRA review or separate reviews with Wawarsing at the joint meeting.
OTHER MATTERS:
Chairman Baden noted that the Town Board might wait to appoint a new Board Member to fill in Mr. Rominger’s position until the Organizational Meeting and in the meantime just have the alternate fill in the empty seat. He doesn’t know what they are actually going to do.
Chairman Baden noted that the Town has received a new Zoning Permit to add another dish to 82 City Hall Road. He just wanted to give the Board a head’s up on that.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. O’Donnell motioned to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Dawson. No discussion. All members present in favor.
Chairman Baden adjourned the meeting at 9:25PM.
Respectfully submitted,
Rebecca Paddock Stange, Secretary
DRAFT