MINUTES OF February 11, 2013 the Town of Rochester PLANNING BOARD, held at the Town Hall, Accord, NY.
Chairman Baden asked that everyone stand to say the Pledge to the Flag.
The Secretary did roll call attendance.
PRESENT: ABSENT:
Michael Baden, Chairman Baden Melvyn I. Tapper
Fred O’Donnell Anthony Ullman
Adam Paddock
Robert Rominger, Vice Chairman
Shane Ricks
Also present:
Rebecca Paddock Stange, Secretary. Mary Lou Christiana, Town Attorney.
ANNOUNCEMENTS and COMMUNICATIONS
Chairman Baden noted that the Wintermeyer lot line improvement has finished up their Road Maintenance Agreement courtesy of the Town Attorney, so the Chairman has signed off on those maps. Also Appeldoorn just finished their maps and they have been signed off on at this meeting. Also he wanted to announce to everyone that the Board received notice that Appeldoorn Farm has received a listing on the NY State Register and they have been submitted to inclusion on the National Register. He believed that the Schoonmaker homestead is also being considered.
Trainings:
There is a training coming up that is being put on by the Shawangunk Partnership. They are the people that were instrumental in getting the Scenic Byway done. Tools for Assessing Visual Impacts. It is free and is Thursday night March 7th 7-9PM at the Rosendale Community Center.
ACTION ON MINUTES
One minor change to be made on Page 5. Mr. O’Donnell did not make and second a motion.
Mr. O’Donnell motioned to approve the January 8, 2013 minutes with the revision. Seconded by Mr. Rominger. No discussion.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Tapper: Absent
O’Donnell: Yes Rominger: Yes
Ullman: Absent Ricks: Yes
Paddock: Yes
Motion carried. 5 ayes, 0 nays, 2 absent, 0 abstentions
Mr. Ricks recused himself at 7:05PM from the Board as the next application to be reviewed was his own.
PB 2013-01 SBD New Application
Minor Subdivision
RV Associates, Inc.; Shane Ricks– applicant, Application for Minor Subdivision. A 2 lot subdivision creating 2.7 acre and 24.5 acre parcels to be subdivided from an existing 27.2 acre parcel. Mettacahonts Rd., S/B/L #76.2-5-3.112, ‘B’ and ‘AP Overlay’ zoning districts.
Mr. Ricks was present on behalf of this application. He explained that this was across from Skate Time 209. This was the big lot that was surrounding his storage units. The whole property is in the Business District, so its 1 acre per dwelling. Someone wants to put up a small single family home on the +/-2.7 acres. It’s all wooded. Mr. Medenbach, PE has submitted a letter saying that it will support a septic and a well after doing test holes. The Chairman gave him notes before hand, so they were able to make a whole bunch of changes to the map. He didn’t realize that part of the property was in a flood zone because even with the 500 year flood that they had the property didn’t flood.
Chairman Baden noted that one of the things he does is go to the County Parcel Viewer to the FEMA flood maps. There is a very small portion on the Church side of the property that is in flood zone. This property is also in a County Ag District. Because of this and the Flood zone, this will need to be referred to the County.
Mr. Ricks noted that the Church had flooding in their basement, but his property never flooded.
Chairman Baden noted that it was possible that they just mapped this with elevations.
Mr. Ricks noted that the lot that they are creating is no where near that area.
Chairman Baden noted that he did have a closer aerial view of the lot that they were looking at creating. It was fairly wooded. Was the plan to leave a lot of the trees there?
Mr. Ricks noted that a home site would be cleared.
Chairman Baden noted that he went through the application and they also received the Ag Data Statement, so they have all the paperwork they needed to move forward with this. He did an initial review when they received the application and he asked that they add in the structures and driveways to see where all of those things are. He felt they had everything they needed.
Mr. Rominger motioned to type this action as Unlisted with an Uncoordinated Review. Seconded by Mr. O’Donnell.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Tapper: Absent
O’Donnell: Yes Rominger: Yes
Ullman: Absent Ricks: Yes
Paddock: Yes
Motion carried. 5 ayes, 0 nays, 2 absent, 0 abstentions
Chairman Baden wanted to send this to the Town of Rochester Highway Superintendent because this was on a Town Road.
Mr. Ricks noted that he already submitted the application and received approval from the Highway Superintendent.
Because of the Flood Plain and the Ag District this needed to be sent to the UCPB as well.
Mr. Ricks noted that he was surprised that because he was just splitting one lot off of a big piece of property and you go into the office you have to pay for 2 lots.
Chairman Baden noted that 1 lot was turning into 2 and both lots were being reviewed.
Mr. O’Donnell motioned to refer the application to the UCPB. Seconded by Mr. Paddock.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Tapper: Absent
O’Donnell: Yes Rominger: Yes
Ullman: Absent Ricks: Yes
Paddock: Yes
Motion carried. 5 ayes, 0 nays, 2 absent, 0 abstentions
Mr. Rominger motioned to schedule the Public Hearing for March 12, 2013. Seconded by Mr. Paddock.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Tapper: Absent
O’Donnell: Yes Rominger: Yes
Ullman: Absent Ricks: Yes
Paddock: Yes
Motion carried. 5 ayes, 0 nays, 2 absent, 0 abstentions
Chairman Baden noted that the one thing he forgot to note that needed to be changed to the maps were a couple of statements that the DEC required for anything that was in a flood plain. Mr. Eggers should have this information. He’s added it to other maps. Mr. Ricks could wait until the Public Hearing to see if anything comes up.
Pre-Application Conference
Site Plan Review
Elm Rock Inn LLC- for Site Plan Review. An expansion of a residential use Bed & Breakfast to hold onsite events pursuant to Section 140-35 of the Town of Rochester Zoning Code, 4496 Route 209, Tax Map #69.4-2-1.32, ‘B’ and ‘FD Overlay’ zoning districts. The parcel also includes land located in the Town of Marbletown, 4494 Route 209, Tax Map #69.4-1-1.2.
Mr. Moriello, Attorney was present along with Kim Weeks, owner and Scott Davis from Peak Engineering.
Mr. Moriello explained that as the PB was aware, this application took a circuitous route. They were here initially for a hotel and expansions. They didn’t really know a lot about the SEQRA process—so once they got into that- it got scaled back. Then they got into a back and forth with the CEO on the occupancy of the house. That has all be remedied and now they are back before the Board for a B & B expansion, which under the Town’s zoning laws they can have a B & B with up to 12 events per year. Mrs. Weeks could explain more about it, but the character of the use is not really going to change. Its just those special events are imperative to the continued viability of the business and that’s what they’d like to get approved for. Mr. Davis from Peak Engineering has put together a proposed site plan with parking and a tent area.
Mr. Davis, PE explained that ideally the intent would be to have a tent structure used for any events that they were having with a temporary bathroom facility brought in from off site. The parking – they used the guidelines from the Town for space requirements, but they would be parking on the lawns. They were not lined permanent spots. It would have to be brush hogged in areas to create some of these spots. With that they felt like they could comfortably get those spots if they were going to have an event to the maximum of 250 people.
Chairman Baden questioned what the width of the aisles was.
Mr. Davis, PE noted that it was whatever was required by the Town Code.
Chairman Baden noted that it would be 25’.
Mr. Davis, PE noted that they laid this out as if it was going to be a parking lot. The space required by the Town along with the aisles was what they needed to be. The idea that the owners have would be that they would have people directing the cars to park. Those parking spaces would only be used for special events.
Mrs. Weeks noted that they have actually started clearing some of that area, just to get it to look nicer anyway. There are some trees in front of the parking so it wouldn’t be that visible.
Mr. Davis, PE noted that it would remain grass for those parking spots.
Chairman Baden noted that he pulled the same maps as he always does. The bottom corner where the brook is, is in the flood plain. It’s not much. According to the DEC’s mapping of the wetlands there is a tiny corner of wetland in that corner as well. This application is going to the County PB anyway because of a lot of factors- it’s on Route 209 and is in two towns, so it’s already going to be referred. He did ask if Mr. Davis could pull those maps and put it on the site plan to be referenced. Also, this property is in the County Ag District, so the applicant would need to submit an Ag Data Statement.
Mr. Moriello understood this and would be submitting his standard form.
Chairman Baden noted that it would be needed to circulate to the County PB and for Noticing the Public Hearing. They will also need to circulate intent to be Lead Agency. This will be a Type 1 Action because of the historic structure being the main house. The proposal doesn’t involve the main house, but it is on the property.
Mr. Baden noted that they would need to circulate intent to seek Lead Agency Status to the NYS DOT, UCHD, Town of Marbletown PB or Clerk?
The Town Attorney advised that it would need to go to the Planning Board.
Chairman Baden continued to note that interested agencies would be OPRHP, UCPB and NYS DEC.
Mr. Ricks questioned who would be Lead Agent? Marbletown or Rochester? Rochester has more property, but most of this is going on in Marbletown.
Chairman Baden felt that this would also have to go to their Board as well, but he believed by circulating this, they would notify the Board of what they needed.
Chairman Baden motioned to circulate intent to seek Lead Agency Status to the NYS DOT, UCHD, Town of Marbletown PB as involved agencies and to OPRHP, UCPB, and NYSDEC as interested agencies. Seconded by Mr. O’Donnell.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Tapper: Absent
O’Donnell: Yes Rominger: Yes
Ullman: Absent Ricks: Yes
Paddock: Yes
Motion carried. 5 ayes, 0 nays, 2 absent, 0 abstentions
Chairman Baden noted that they may have answers for March, but may have to wait for the 30 days if they don’t hear from everyone by the next meeting. Because the Board just received this application the Chairman hasn’t had time to do his normal cursory review that he does on applications. This brought up the point of needing the Planner or not? This application meets the requirements for Planner review. They haven’t used the Planner a lot in the last year because the Chairman has taken on a lot of that role and review. He doesn’t mind doing it if it is okay with the Board.
Chairman Baden noted that they forgot to add the Town’s Historic Preservation Commission to be an interested Agency under SEQRA and motioned to refer it to them as well. Seconded by Mr. O’Donnell.
Vote:
Baden: Yes Tapper: Absent
O’Donnell: Yes Rominger: Yes
Ullman: Absent Ricks: Yes
Paddock: Yes
Motion carried. 5 ayes, 0 nays, 2 absent, 0 abstentions
The Board was supportive of the Chairman doing the review on the application.
Chairman Baden noted that Mr. O’Donnell is the former Fire Chief of the Kerhonkson Fire District, so the Board leans on him a lot to look at site plans from that standpoint. Chairman Baden was a little concerned with 3 entrances. Especially the one that was in the middle. It was a site distance issue. They would wait to hear back from the DOT before the Board made any formal recommendations.
Mr. Moriello noted that Mr. Davis, PE and he were talking to Mrs. Weeks about it. He thinks they were going to try and get Dave Corrigan from the NYS DOT out to the site as soon as possible to look at it.
Chairman Baden noted that would be good. They may want to consider closing it off and using the Northern one and straightening it out a little. It’s a big concern because of the turn there. When it’s a residential use and only 5 guests rooms, it’s not as big of a deal. Now we are talking more traffic and more issues.
Mr. O’Donnell noted that from a fire companies point of view you may not want to get rid of it. You may want to put a chain across it or something so it can still be accessed. If he was driving a truck he’d be hitting that spot first.
Chairman Baden questioned was there anyway to increase the site distance for the service entrance towards the south? He’d like to see what the site distance is from each of those entrances. As far as the tent was concerned would the tent be temporary?
Mrs. Weeks noted that it would be per event depending on what size the event would be and then it would come down.
Mr. Ricks questioned if they would put it down in the spring and leave it till the fall like the Inn at Stone Ridge does.
Mrs. Weeks replied no. It would come down.
Chairman Baden noted that they will need to see where structures are neighboring if there is anything within 500’ of the property line especially on the backside. He’ll include this on the list he’ll prepare. They do need to know where the structures are especially in terms of noise mitigation. There is a list of conditions to be followed that are already in the Code. The other thing is that the 12 events would also include if they had a wedding indoors- that will also count as an event. Anything that is separate from the B & B use. He wanted to make sure that they weren’t proposing to run the catering business out of the house?
Mrs. Weeks noted that the kitchen would be there.
Chairman Baden questioned if they would be running the catering business itself out of there—meaning they aren’t cooking in that kitchen for outside events? Are they using the house as anything other than the B & B now?
Mrs. Weeks answered no.
The Chairman knew that part of the initial proposal was included to have catering.
Mrs. Weeks believed what ended up happening was a grand plan and her husband didn’t realize that they should take one step at a time because who knows what the plan is going to bring 5 years from now.
Chairman Baden noted that that would be up to the CEO, but he believed it would be a separate use.
Mr. Ricks wanted to know if Chairman Baden was saying that they couldn’t do any cooking in the house and bring appetizer’s out to the tent?
Chairman Baden wasn’t saying this. He was saying for off site catering. They could use the kitchen for their events. They couldn’t be running a catering business on top of what they were asking for. They can’t run a separate business.
Mrs. Weeks noted that she didn’t know what the future would bring, but it is a commercial kitchen, so their intent is to have a catering business, but not a catering business to have onsite necessarily. They are looking to do that.
Chairman Baden noted that this was why he brought it up because it was part of the original discussion. If they were intending on doing this- that was where they would need to go back to the CEO for a new determination. Is that a separate business or was it part of the B & B. That wasn’t up to the Board to decide. He just wanted to be clear that the approval that they were considering was to hold the 12 events on the facility with the site plan being proposed, and that is all they are reviewing.
Mr. Moriello noted that it sounded like the Chairman wanted the applicant to ask the CEO for an interpretation.
Chairman Baden noted that that was between the applicant and the CEO. He just wanted to be clear that that wasn’t what they were reviewing now.
Mr. Moriello felt that they could put something together and get it to the CEO.
Chairman Baden noted that if the CEO comes back and says that’s okay as part of this determination, then that’s fine.
Mr. Moriello noted that it would be outside of any approval given by the Board.
Chairman Baden wanted to be clear that what the PB was reviewing was the 12 events per year in conjunction with the B & B.
Mr. Ricks noted that if you had a restaurant in the Town and you decided to cater outside events, they have a permit to have a restaurant. They don’t have to get a separate permit.
The Town Attorney stated that the applicant’s don’t have a permit for a restaurant.
Mr. Ricks understood this, but noted that they had a kitchen that was approved to feed the people in the B & B and also supply all the food for the tent.
Chairman Baden said that was fine.
Mr. Rominger noted that it was not for outside events.
Mr. Ricks stated that it was no different than a restaurant really.
The Town Attorney stated that it was different.
Mr. Ricks noted that they were feeding up to 250 people.
The Town Attorney noted that it was only 12 times a year. That’s different. That’s the CEO’s determination.
Again, the Chairman wanted to be clear because we have gone through so many versions of this application that he just wanted to put that out there now of what the Board was actually reviewing so that there were no misconceptions. Other than that he would make the list of things they needed to see changed on the site plan.
Mr. Paddock questioned the color copy of the map. It looked like the one driveway ran through another property.
Chairman Baden noted that the property lines on the GIS maps don’t line up. The property lines are one data set and the aerial views are another and they don’t synch up exactly. He’s brought it to the County’s attention and they haven’t been able to fix it. It’s a representation.
Chairman Baden questioned if there would be dumpsters on the property? And where were they located.
Mrs. Weeks noted they were behind the picket fence over by the service entrance.
Chairman Baden questioned if the truck had the ability to turn around?
Mrs. Weeks noted they can turn around in there and don’t have to back out onto the road.
Chairman Baden noted that they may just want to show that. The County will bring stuff up like that because they are big about people not backing out on to roads especially Route 209.
Mr. Rominger noted that that area is a bad spot- he’s seen trucks backing out onto the road there and when you are coming south you cannot see them and they can’t see you.
Mr. Ricks questioned what the parking lot was? Gravel?
Mr. Davis, PE noted it was gravel.
Chairman Baden noted that they may want to label that and show that the other area is grass. They should also add the location of the signs. They don’t need a picture of them because they are existing. Were they proposing any exterior lighting in the tent or surrounding area? The Board will need to see a cut sheet of the details to submit to the County because they want to see full cut off fixtures. They didn’t need full photometric. With the parking was there going to be any lighting? Obviously some of these events would happen in the dark areas.
The applicant noted there could do temporary lighting in the parking area.
Chairman Baden noted that Mr. Moriello should write up a narrative of the property more for the use of the property and how its going to be used. More the details.
Mr. Moriello thought that this was a small enough application—did they think a gateway meeting with Dennis Doyle of the Ulster County PB- would that be beneficial?
Chairman Baden noted that he was the Town’s County PB representative. There is one advantage to it in that Mr. Doyle can get quite a few of the parties involved and get them to the table at the same time. If they wanted to do that the Chairman was happy to make that recommendation and see if they could schedule something. Because it involves two Towns, it might really be a good idea because then they might not have to have a joint meeting of the two Boards as a whole. He was happy with that suggestion. He would say to do that before they make the official referral. He’d like to wait until they have a more detailed map.
Mr. Moriello noted that they couldn’t refer it to them until they were ready for a SEQRA determination. He just thought having the other Town involved that it might move things through more quickly.
Chairman Baden suggested that Mr. Moriello contact the County on his own.
Mr. Moriello would do this.
Chairman Baden noted that it was helpful because everyone walks away with the same idea because they are all sitting at the same table. They’ve really had a lot of luck getting someone from every department there.
Mr. Moriello didn’t really think that OPRHP was going to have a lot of interest in this.
Chairman Baden didn’t think so either, but they still needed to be contacted. The last time when the applicant was proposing the barn, they had no concerns. They are treating this as a new application so they were recalculating to everyone because it is different than last time.
Mr. Ricks noted that he brought this up before. He had the same exact circumstance at his house. They had a Bed and Breakfast in front of them and they had weddings at night and put up a big tent like this and basically they were night weddings. They started playing music at 9 or 10PM and went on to 1AM and his house is about ¼ mile away through a field, but it was like the band was right in his own yard. When they have a building with solid walls, it stops the sounds. They do have a neighbor right behind them. Is there going to be some type of guidelines on the noise at night?
Mrs. Weeks noted first of all she believed that there was a Town ordinance about noise.
Chairman Baden stated that there was not.
Mrs. Weeks continued and noted that they were well aware of that and the event would usually end at 10PM. She thought that there was a 10PM curfew to noise.
Chairman Baden noted that in the Town’s Code for this type of use it was limited to certain hours, he believed it would be 11PM.
Mrs. Weeks noted that they planned to have the tents sided and that is a sound buffer. There are also trees that line the whole property in the back.
Mr. Ricks noted that trees don’t do too much with sound.
Chairman Baden suggested to show where there was existing tree lines. Also to show existing trees for visual between the parking and Route 209. They would also need to show all bounding owners and property lines.
Mr. Rominger questioned if there was something in the Code over temporary events parking? How were they getting to the number?
Chairman Baden noted that in the Town’s parking guidelines they had a lot of flexibility. Could the applicant give written justification for the number of spaces being presented. The Board allows the applicant to come and say how many spaces they think they need and then the Board reviews it based on the criteria and their justifications. It does need to be in writing because it goes into the record and a resolution is made accepting it.
Mr. Moriello noted that the worse case is 250 people at a wedding—detail that with the parking provided.
Chairman Baden agreed but noted they would also need to show spots for staff and the thought that they will still be functioning as a B & B for 5 rooms.
Mr. Davis, PE went by public assembly- 1 space per 4 seats and then by hotels- even though they aren’t applying for a hotel, they did it as the B & B.
Chairman Baden said they would need a written chart saying how they got to the number.
Mr. Davis, PE noted that there were 78 spaces and 1 handicap space.
Mr. Paddock questioned if the parking spaces would go by the Town of Rochester Code, not Marbletown?
Chairman Baden noted that when they had the joint meeting with Marbletown they would figure that out.
Mr. Davis, PE noted that they would use the most restrictive one.
Chairman Baden noted that it was a straight forward application, but because it was on Route 209 and the DOT involvement and it was in 2 Towns and the historic it adds a lot of levels of review to it.
Mr. O’Donnell questioned if there was a quantity of handicap spots per regular spots?
Chairman Baden noted that was Federal Law. He thought they would need more than 1. Having 1 handicap space in the B & B parking area was fine, but they may want to make one of the very close temporary spaces the handicap there.
Mr. Davis, PE noted they could do that.
Mr. Moriello noted that they would get the revisions to the office soon.
Chairman Baden noted that they could circulate intent for Lead Agency with what was submitted.
Chairman Baden noted he would make the list of revisions—but for the applicant not to make a whole bunch of new maps—just a few copies, so once we have that joint meeting we can see what comes out of that. There was one new correction to Mr. Moriello’s letter- He has Town of Marbletown down as Lead Agency- its actually Rochester.
Mr. Moriello agreed that was a typo. He wanted to get the application with the Town of Marbletown rolling by March.
Chairman Baden noted that if Mr. Moriello contacts Mr. Doyle of the UCPB he could probably get something by the end of the month. He will also send an email on his end.
OTHER MATTERS
LGRMIF GRANT
Chairman Baden noted that he and the Secretary have met with the Town’s IT guy and are developing a program. They are also working on getting a laptop for the office and new software.
ZONING AND SUBDIVISION UPDATE
Chairman Baden noted that he met with the Town Board at their Audit Meeting in January and he walked them through an overview of the Zoning Code and it took an hour and 15 minutes to go through 7 pages. They were going to continue every month at their Audit Meetings for the next several months to walk through the code. A copy will be up on the website when he gets the time. It is just a proposal at this point. Its not anything that the PB has done as a Board. Its from Mr. Baden and Jerry Davis, CEO based on their observations on things that needed to be fixed. As soon as the Town Board gets it to a point where they are good with what they do to it, it will come back to the PB for official comment.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. O’Donnell motioned to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Rominger. No discussion.
All members present in favor.
As there was no further business, Vice Chairman Rominger adjourned the meeting at 8:00PM.
Respectfully submitted,
Rebecca Paddock Stange, Secretary
Approved March 12, 2013