Planning Board Minutes Nov. 2011

MINUTES OF November 9, 2011 Regular MEETING of the Town of Rochester PLANNING BOARD, held at the Town Hall, Accord, NY.
 
Mr. Tapper, Acting Chairman called the meeting to order at 7:00 PM.

 

Mr. Tapper, Acting Chairman asked the Secretary for roll call attendance.

 

PRESENT:                                                        ABSENT:
Melvyn I. Tapper, Acting Chairman                       Michael Baden, Chairman
Fred O’Donnell                                         Shane Ricks, Vice Chairman
Leon Smith                                              Anthony Ullman
Robert Rominger
                                                                                                                                                                                                 

 

Also present:
Secretary, Rebecca Paddock Stange, Town Attorney, Mary Lou Christiana, and Town Planner, Tim Moot. Adam S. Paddock, Planning Board Alternate (seated in the audience).

 

Mr. O’Donnell motioned to call the meeting to order and that Mr. Tapper be appointed as acting Chairman for this meeting. Seconded by Mr. Rominger.
Vote:
Baden:  Absent                                          Tapper: Yes
O’Donnell:      Yes                                                     Rominger:       Yes
Ullman: Absent                                          Ricks:          Absent
Smith:          Yes                                                     
                                                                        
Motion carried. 4 ayes, 0 nays, 3 absent

 

Mr. Rominger motioned to seat the Alternate just in case anyone was missing for the December meeting and in case they need to make a vote on anything. Mr. Smith seconded the motion.
Vote:
Baden:  Absent                                          Tapper: Yes
O’Donnell:      Yes                                                     Rominger:       Yes
Ullman: Absent                                          Ricks:          Absent
Smith:          Yes     

 

Motion carried. 4 ayes, 0 nays, 3 absent

 

Mr. Paddock was now seated at the table as a regular member for this meeting.
ACTION ON MINUTES
Mr. Smith motioned to accept the September 26, 2011 Workshop minutes. Seconded by Mr. O’Donnell. No discussion.
Vote:
Baden:  Absent                                          Tapper: Yes
O’Donnell:      Yes                                                     Rominger:       Yes
Ullman: Absent                                          Ricks:          Absent
Smith:          Yes                                                             Paddock:        Yes
                                                                        
Motion carried. 5 ayes*, 0 nays, 3 absent
(including alternate)

 

Mr. Rominger motioned to accept the October 11, 2011 minutes. Seconded by Mr. O’Donnell. No discussion.
Vote:
Baden:  Absent                                          Tapper: Yes
O’Donnell:      Yes                                                     Rominger:       Yes
Ullman: Absent                                          Ricks:          Absent
Smith:          Yes                                                             Paddock:        Yes
                                                                        
Motion carried. 5 ayes*, 0 nays, 3 absent
(including alternate)

 

CONTINUED APPLICATION AND PUBLIC HEARING
PEN ULSTER, LLC, c/o Ralph Brunswick, Amended Major Subdivision, Approved 27 lot subdivision (Decision PB1991-9) with lots to be combined to become 11 lots, private road “Ridgewood Rd.” off Rock Mountain Road and Palentown Road, Tax Map #60.1-5-(lots 1-27), R-2 Zoning District
(2011-09SBD)

 

Mr. James was present on behalf of the application and explained that Mr. Brunswick was stuck in traffic and was unable to make it.

 

Chairman Tapper noted that the Board received a letter dated November 8, 2011 from Medenbach & Eggers stating that they would be submitting a whole new SWPPP.

 

Mr. James noted that there was an issue with the initial one not being correctly filed with the Albany DEC Office. The letter from Mr. Medenbach references that.

 

Chairman Tapper noted that they received Wayne Kelder, Highway Superintendents requirement that both sections of road needed to be brought up to Town Standards.

 

Town Attorney Christiana noted that there was a question last time as to whether there was access to the back subdivision and there is under the RMA for the first Section. It reserves the right for the developer to use that roadway (Ridgewood Road) to go back to Section 2. She had also spoken with Peter Berger last week who is the Attorney for the project and they talked about the RMA and she did recommend that the applicant would probably want to get together with the people from Section 1 to make it all flow for both Sections. She relayed the concerns brought up by the neighbors at the first Public Hearing with the road being washed out and the
CONTINUED APPLICATION AND PUBLIC HEARING
PEN ULSTER, LLC, c/o Ralph Brunswick, Amended Major Subdivision, Approved 27 lot subdivision (Decision PB1991-9) with lots to be combined to become 11 lots, private road “Ridgewood Rd.” off Rock Mountain Road and Palentown Road, Tax Map #60.1-5-(lots 1-27), R-2 Zoning District
(2011-09SBD)

 

condition of the road. Mr. Berger indicated that the applicant would be talking with the neighbors to come up with a change in the RMA to make it so that it is a fair burden on the people in Section 1 so that they are not paying totally to maintain a road that is going to service so many more lots in the back. The applicant said he’d be willing to do that. Mrs. Christiana had also noted to Mr. Berger that the road would also have to be improved as it is in bad shape and they are going to look into that.

 

Mr. Rominger noted that part of getting the roads in order according to Town Specifications is Mr. Brunswick paying for the upgrades to the roads in both Section 1 and 2?

 

Town Attorney Christiana noted that is going to be up to the applicant to work with the people from Section 1 on that. The applicant did indicate at the last meeting that he was willing to do that, but she’s not certain what will happen.

 

Mr. Rominger questioned if part of this changing this subdivision if there is not an agreement from Mr. Brunswick to do anything but talk to the neighbors, then the Board is only looking at this as upgrading a road in the second subdivision?

 

Town Attorney Christiana answered, no. The Board needs to make sure that there is good access to that. If its not going to be an access that is useable she was comfortable saying that the Board could go ahead and condition that the Section 1 road needed to be upgraded prior to any building permits issued or whatever. The Board would have to wait to see what the applicant comes up with.

 

Mr. Rominger noted that the Board would have to wait to see what the applicant comes up with in regards to improving the roads and the SWPPP.

 

Town Planner, Mr. Moot, noted that he had met with Mr. Kelder and Mr. James at the site and he noted that they looked at some of the issues along the road. He would interpret those as a maintenance issue. There has been a lot of heavy tropical storm action in recent months and maybe some of this is part of a maintenance thing associated with that. But also a concern is with the SWPPP and now as of today they have a direction that they will provide a revised SWPPP. Looking at some of the things he saw out there—these roads are built the grading is done- the impact has already been created. Ridgewood Road basically travels parallel with contours on the hillside, so the roadway is accepting a lot of the drainage coming off of the hill. There is also concentrated drainage related to the side roads and he would want to make a point that when they do develop the SWPPP, they need to go out and recognize the site conditions as they are now and try and mitigate that with the new SWPPP. He doesn’t think they can look at this as it is an existing road, they have to look at it as a pre-anything condition when they do this.

 

Mr. O’Donnell agreed with this.
CONTINUED APPLICATION AND PUBLIC HEARING
PEN ULSTER, LLC, c/o Ralph Brunswick, Amended Major Subdivision, Approved 27 lot subdivision (Decision PB1991-9) with lots to be combined to become 11 lots, private road “Ridgewood Rd.” off Rock Mountain Road and Palentown Road, Tax Map #60.1-5-(lots 1-27), R-2 Zoning District
(2011-09SBD)

 

Chairman Tapper noted that it’s not just to prevent any construction from this point forward, it’s to try and prevent past construction.

 

Mr. Moot agreed with this statement. If there was a SWPPP on file, the DEC looks at SWPPPs as a “living document” which can be modified along the way, but there isn’t one on file it’s important that it gets captured.

 

Mr. James felt that it was also important to note that the problem with the erosion is not due to the roads, it’s due to a ditch in Section 1 that was not maintained. All of the culverts that are up near the road intersection seem to be working properly and were not overtopped in any of the recent storms.

 

Mr. Moot noted that in another point when they were walking, Mr. James provided the initial intent build a cul-de-sac and Mr. Kelder looked at the grades and it made more sense to pull the cul-de-sac back to a higher spot. Right now where it is shown is in a broad low spot, so it would create some drainage issues. They asked Mr. James to come up with a draft which was emailed to Board Members.

 

Mr. James explained that it basically shortens the cul-de-sac by about 150-200’ and creates a short flag lot for lot 10 about 70’, just at the end of the shortened cul-de-sac. It will be the same size cul-de-sac, but it will be a shorter distance from the end of the existing road- less disturbance.

 

Mr. O’Donnell questioned if they ever got a distance on this road to the cul-de-sac? From Rock Mt. Road?

 

Mr. James recalled it being somewhere around 2,500’.

 

Mr. Rominger questioned if they were still planning on doing 20’ of road width?

 

Mr. James believed it was 18’.

 

Mr. O’Donnell recalled that the Board wanted 20’, but Mr. Kelder felt that 18’ was what it should be since that was what the code required. He reminded the Board that the other thing would be to have a pull off at 1,000’.

 

Mr. Rominger noted that was why they had mentioned doing 20’ so that they didn’t need the pull off.

 

Mr. Moot noted that the other thing that they had talked about when Mr. Moot was trying to get up to speed on the history of this, was that Mr. James shows in faint print the original subdivision layout, house lots and septics, so now when you reconfigure the lots, each lot will only have one house, so he’s kind of showing the old with the new and what Mr. Moot thought would be beneficial is to actually pick which location the actual house spot was going to be. The applicant is using logic like its already been pre-approved by the Health Dept., so they use a pre-approved site for the septic and kind of configure the well and house placement around that. And also on the final plan to show where each house is going to be. That was what was pretty much what was discussed in the field.
CONTINUED APPLICATION AND PUBLIC HEARING
PEN ULSTER, LLC, c/o Ralph Brunswick, Amended Major Subdivision, Approved 27 lot subdivision (Decision PB1991-9) with lots to be combined to become 11 lots, private road “Ridgewood Rd.” off Rock Mountain Road and Palentown Road, Tax Map #60.1-5-(lots 1-27), R-2 Zoning District
(2011-09SBD)

 

Mr. O’Donnell questioned how far is the road through the first Section to the main road?

 

Mr. James estimated about 1,250’.

 

Mr. O’Donnell thought that if they look at those pull offs there should be one in the first Section. They are usually about one per 1,000’. The road in the first section is also sub par. With 20’ you don’t need a pull off; you can pass each other with fire equipment. When you go below that you go with a pull off every 1,000’. Pull offs are 50’ x 10’.

 

Mr. James would ask Mr. Brunswick how he wanted to handle that.

 

Town Attorney Christiana noted that they also needed to watch on the first section because she wasn’t sure how much Mr. Brunswick owned as the lots have all been sold.

 

Mr. O’Donnell noted that you might be able to stretch it out to 1,200’.

 

Mr. Moot noted that as they get closer to final approval, Mr. James’ notes mention the turn around being shale. Shale generally goes to clay over time- the Board may want to check with Mr. Kelder on that prior to final.

 

At 7:25 Chairman Tapper opened the Hearing to the public. There was no one in the audience who wanted to speak.

 

Chairman Tapper read into the record letter dated October 16, 2011 submitted by Gloria Mirsky as to the poor condition of the Section 1 road. She also submitted pictures showing the poor conditions. She had attached correspondence from 2005 between Barry Medenbach, PE and Janet Swentusky from the DEC regarding the Stormwater Management Plan.

 

Mr. O’Donnell motioned to continue the Public Hearing pending receipt of the revised-updated SWPPP and new information. Seconded by Mr. Rominger. No discussion.
Vote:
Baden:  Absent                                          Tapper: Yes
O’Donnell:      Yes                                                     Rominger:       Yes
Ullman: Absent                                          Ricks:          Absent
Smith:          Yes                                                             Paddock:        Yes
                                                                        
Motion carried. 5 ayes*, 0 nays, 3 absent
(including alternate)
CONTINUED APPLICATION AND PUBLIC HEARING
PEN ULSTER, LLC, c/o Ralph Brunswick, Amended Major Subdivision, Approved 27 lot subdivision (Decision PB1991-9) with lots to be combined to become 11 lots, private road “Ridgewood Rd.” off Rock Mountain Road and Palentown Road, Tax Map #60.1-5-(lots 1-27), R-2 Zoning District
(2011-09SBD)

 

Chairman Tapper wanted to clarify the Section of road that was claimed not to be well maintained- whose responsibility was that at the time?

 

Mr. James stated that there was no run off from Section 2 to Section 1.

 

Mr. Moot noted that what he saw was concentrated flow coming off of the previously approved and roughed in Mount Laurel Road.

 

Mr. James noted that was running through lot 6 and past Mirsky. A little bit was coming off of lot 1 and other lands of Bittner adjoining that.

 

Mr. Moot noted what he saw was a maintenance issue and if you look at the pictures you can see exposed gravel. And if you look off to the side you can see grass shoulders and pine trees and that’s part of the whole maintenance thing where if that was properly maintained. That’s a long term maintenance thing and then there’s short term maintenance like with these big storms. Its good to use this now as a bench mark to get everything aired out on who has to do what and start with a new SWPPP and make sure that there aren’t any drainage issues contributed from this to that and go from there.

 

Mr. Rominger questioned who was doing the analysis in Section 1 so that they knew who was responsible?

 

Mr. Moot noted that what he understood from Mrs. Christiana was that she was in correspondence with the applicant’s attorney and they were working on that.

 

Mr. Rominger noted that the Board just needed to make sure that it was resolved in both Sections.

 

Mr. Moot noted that the other question that he had was if the applicant maintains a right of way to get to Section 2, just by having that right of way, is he a maintenance member on Section 1?

 

Town Attorney Christiana agreed with this and this was what the applicant needed to sort out.

 

PRE-APPLICATION CONFERENCE
MARK SUSZCZYNSKI- and Property Owner -Marietta Hanley, Pre-application Conference for a Special Use Permit for a Hotel, Conversion of a Bed & Breakfast to the proposed use of a 24 seat restaurant and onsite events and catering facility with overnight accommodations, 4496 US Route 209, Stone Ridge, Tax Map #69.4-2-1.32, ‘B’ Zoning District

 

Tecia Poulas, the applicant’s realtor, was present on their behalf.

 

Ms. Poulas noted that the applicants had a trip planned and they were unable to attend.
PRE-APPLICATION CONFERENCE
MARK SUSZCZYNSKI- and Property Owner -Marietta Hanley, Pre-application Conference for a Special Use Permit for a Hotel, Conversion of a Bed & Breakfast to the proposed use of a 24 seat restaurant and onsite events and catering facility with overnight accommodations, 4496 US Route 209, Stone Ridge, Tax Map #69.4-2-1.32, ‘B’ Zoning District

 

Ms. Poulas read a short letter from the applicant noting that they have lived in the area for over 20 years. They had a restaurant in New Paltz that they just sold. He has been a professional chef for the past 30 years. Ms. Poulas submitted a narrative of what the applicant is proposing for the record. The current owners spent a lot of money and did things that seemed to ruin the character of the building. The applicant plans to name it the Elm Rock Inn. He is not certain that he wants to do a restaurant, but the big difference is getting the permit in case in the future he’d like to do a small restaurant. That’s the big change from the typical Bed and Breakfast.

 

Ms. Poulas continued to note that there were 5 rooms and if it’s more than 5 it becomes an Inn or Hotel.

 

The Secretary noted that it was determined to be a hotel because of the restaurant aspect along with the lodging. That’s the definition that it fell under in the zoning code.

 

Ms. Poulas understood that this was a little tricky because the property is split with Marbletown and the parking is in Marbletown.

 

Mr. Rominger questioned if the applicant was looking to do outdoor events under a tent type thing?

 

Ms. Poulas answered yes- like weddings.

 

Mr. Rominger noted that the past applicant had proposed having a pavilion, but never followed through with it. So, other than the temporary tents- there’s no change in the structure itself?

 

Ms. Poulas noted that there would be no external construction.

 

Chairman Tapper noted that he was the acting chairman for this meeting and Chairman Baden emailed a list of items that should be addressed by the applicant. He gave those items to the applicant. It was to give the applicant an idea of what will need to be done.

 

Mr. Rominger noted that he felt the two biggest issues would be outdoor events and parking. If they weren’t touching the building… the other issue they may have is the septic if there is a restaurant. The Health Dept. would have to sign off on that. That’s a narrow strip of parking in there- the parking would have to be very well planned. There would have to be employee parking, handicap spaces.

 

Ms. Poulas understood this and noted that the applicant was speaking with the DOT. They want to see one entrance and one exit instead of the way it is now.

 

Mr. O’Donnell questioned whose standards would be used for parking since the parking lot is required to the building? Rochester’s standards?
PRE-APPLICATION CONFERENCE
MARK SUSZCZYNSKI- and Property Owner -Marietta Hanley, Pre-application Conference for a Special Use Permit for a Hotel, Conversion of a Bed & Breakfast to the proposed use of a 24 seat restaurant and onsite events and catering facility with overnight accommodations, 4496 US Route 209, Stone Ridge, Tax Map #69.4-2-1.32, ‘B’ Zoning District

 

Mrs. Christiana noted that they could require the number of spaces because it is based on the use of the building. Whatever code is stricter in regards to parking would be the one needed to be followed.

 

Mr. Smith noted that there are wetlands on the property and it was indicated that there were none on the zoning permit.

 

The Town Attorney noted that would need to be revised.

 

Ms. Poulas noted that the applicant notified the wetlands specialist from the DEC.

 

Mr. Rominger noted that the only other problem that he sees is if the kitchen remains in the basement- the applicant may need to put in ventilation or have certain requirements to follow.

 

Mrs. Christiana agreed noting that the applicant should speak with the CEO regarding what would be required for a restaurant.

 

Chairman Tapper noted that as a Bed and Breakfast the applicant would be required to live there as his primary residence. As he lives in Accord, it doesn’t seem that he’d be able to do that. If it comes there as a restaurant/ hotel he wouldn’t need to live there.

 

Ms. Poulas questioned if there was a room tax differential for a Bed and Breakfast vs. a hotel?

 

Chairman Tapper noted that he believed that was a County Tax. The Board wasn’t involved in any of that though.

 

Just so she was clear, Ms. Poulas noted that if the applicant lives there and doesn’t have a restaurant it could be a Bed and Breakfast, but if he has a restaurant and lives there or doesn’t live there- it’s a hotel, right? If he started doing events and weddings and he just started doing that and he started renting out rooms for the events and he doesn’t live there- is that okay if he calls it a hotel if he’s not doing a restaurant?

 

Chairman Tapper read the definition of a hotel from the Code as follows:
Hotel/Motel — A building or group of buildings containing rooms used for overnight accommodations of those in transit, or for a short-term business or personal stay and where meals and other services, including recreation facilities, are provided within the building or in an accessory building. Single-room occupancy residential projects shall be considered multi-family dwellings.

 

Mr. Rominger noted that the wisest thing, unless the applicant wants to live there is to apply to be a hotel.

 

Ms. Poulas noted that taxes are different in NYS because a B & B is something like 8.25% and a hotel is like substantially higher.
PRE-APPLICATION CONFERENCE
MARK SUSZCZYNSKI- and Property Owner -Marietta Hanley, Pre-application Conference for a Special Use Permit for a Hotel, Conversion of a Bed & Breakfast to the proposed use of a 24 seat restaurant and onsite events and catering facility with overnight accommodations, 4496 US Route 209, Stone Ridge, Tax Map #69.4-2-1.32, ‘B’ Zoning District

 

Mr. Rominger noted that the most important thing is with a B & B, he has to live there—so if he doesn’t want to live there then he has to go for the higher taxes and what not.

 

Ms. Poulas questioned if this could all be approved by the spring time if the applicant was working hard on this all along?

 

Chairman Tapper noted the more they have done ahead of time, the faster it will go. If the Board has to send the applicant back for more information, then it takes another month. If there were any questions on what needed to be done, go and see the Secretary and the Chairman would be more than happy to give any information when he gets back.

 

Mr. Rominger questioned if the applicant had anyone drawing up official plans up? Does he have an engineer?

 

Ms. Poulas answered yes.

 

Mr. Rominger stated that they will know, and look at the code and they’ll know a lot of what needs to be done. The more thorough it is the better.

 

Ms. Poulas noted that the applicant met with the Ulster County Business Association who helped with a business plan.

 

Mr. Rominger noted that even if everything is perfect its still going to take a few months anyway.

 

Mrs. Christiana noted that they also have this two Town situation to deal with which makes it a little more complicated. She suggested getting the application in and then holding a joint meeting with Marbletown. This will also have to go to the Ulster County PB which adds another month, historic preservation.

 

Mr. Rominger noted that if the applicant wanted to operate by the spring that he should be working on this right now.

 

The Secretary noted that the cut off to get on the next agenda was November 30th.

 

ADJOURMENT

 

Mr. Paddock motioned to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Mr. O’Donnell. No discussion. All members present, in favor.

 

As there was no further business to discuss Chairman Tapper adjourned the meeting at 8:00 pm.
                                                        Respectfully submitted,

 

                                                        Rebecca Paddock Stange, Secretary       
                                                        As accepted December 13, 2011